Chris Yip 0:01 Welcome to Tell Me More: Coffee with Chris Yip, the official podcast of the Faculty of Applied Science and Engineering at the University of Toronto. Each month, I sit down with someone from our vibrant global community to talk about what places them at the heart of designing bold solutions for a better world. You'll meet students, professors and alumni who are making a difference across a range of fields including some where you may not expect to find them. My guest today is alumna Joelle Javier, who graduated from our Material Science Engineering program. Joelle is an elevating and amusement devices safety engineer at Technical Standards and Safety Authority. This means she's in charge of making sure that rollercoasters deliver a memorable thrill without compromising the safety of their riders. Through this and other activities, she aims to inspire the next generation of engineers. Joelle, welcome to the podcast. Joelle Javier 0:56 Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. Chris Yip 0:58 As someone who's a massive fan of roller coaster rides and amusement rides, and have kids who are keen to participate as well, it's always good to know that they're safe. Joelle Javier 1:09 Yes [laughs]. Chris Yip 1:11 So it's always good to kind of get some background on our guests so I wanted to just start with that. So where did you grow up? Joelle Javier 1:19 So I grew up in the Philippines in Manila. Half my life was there. I moved to Canada when I was 15 in 2005. That was right when I finished high school. Yeah, we moved to Winnipeg and then a year after that, I moved to Toronto to study at U of T. Chris Yip 1:38 From from Manila, to Winnipeg, so there's quite a climate change I think, doing that. Joelle Javier 1:45 Yeah, it really was plus Winnipeg, it's a little bit of a small city, and I'm a city girl (Chris: ah okay!) so we went for vacation in Toronto, like that first year, and then that's where I'm like, Okay, I think I need to move to Toronto. So I applied to U of T. Chris Yip 2:01 There you go. That's the driver. Come to the big city. Joelle Javier 2:03 All of this started because I wanted to be a doctor, like a typical dream. But I realized that I needed some sort of a pre med course and life sciences was like...a little bit boring for me [laughs]. And like, my mom wanted me to go to nursing, which is like a very typical Filipino career. So I'm like, No, I'm not sure that's for me either so engineering it is. I was already enrolled at the University of Manitoba for TrackOne Engineering. After that, when we went for vacation here, that's when I went to the U of T campus, and I fell in love. It's kind of like love at first sight. So I was kind of like a late applicant. I think it makes a lot of difference where the campus is situated in terms of the experience that you have as a student. Chris Yip 2:50 Did you transfer over to U of T? Is that how that worked? Joelle Javier 2:53 I applied like, it's brand new. So I started, basically, first year, I think I did like one semester, a summer semester at the University of Manitoba. Chris Yip 3:02 So yeah, being a downtown urban campus, just lots of vibrancy here and just such a complex and also welcoming environment. I think that's another thing about U of T. It's just such a great place to come and study. Did you pick material science engineering as your as your first choice? What was it that drove you into that field? Joelle Javier 3:23 Because I was a late applicant I did not have a lot of choices at that time. I had no idea what material science engineering was. And funnily enough, when I was in the Philippines, actually, I already decided I was gonna go through engineering. So even before we moved to Canada, I was also accepted in one of the universities in the Philippines for computer engineering. So I tried that that U of T, but it was already closed at the time. And then again, thinking of the dream to become a doctor, I was looking at the different programs and materials science came up, I read about the field of biomaterials. And I'm like, that is really interesting, very cool and close to the medicine field so that's when I applied to material science. Chris Yip 4:09 Okay, cool. Yeah. So I mean, I think that's a - it's also interesting, because you can find almost elements of almost every discipline kind of intermixed, right? In material science, you sort of think of, you know, polymers or metals, right? And then like you just mentioned sort of biomaterials, you start thinking of cellular materials, bone and muscle in different sort of soft structures and things like that and material properties kind of span so many different disciplines in different areas. It's kind of a really nice, it's a really nice comprehensive program because you can really look at things in so many different ways. What was your most favorite class? Joelle Javier 4:50 Definitely is biomaterials. Chris Yip 4:52 Okay, so who was your instructor? Joelle Javier 4:55 It was Professor Scott Ramsay. Yeah, I had a lot of fun in that class. I remember when he took us to the anatomy lab, so we got to see cadavers and things like that. So I'm like, Wow, okay, that's a good preview in case I do want to go to med school eventually. Chris Yip 5:12 So I'm curious how did that go with the class? How did the class like going to the anatomy lab? Joelle Javier 5:18 Not everyone enjoyed it as much as I did, because they were a little bit creeped out. I don't even remember why we went but it was a great experience. Chris Yip 5:30 Yeah, I think that's good fun. So you graduated in 1T0, right? So 2010, is that right? Joelle Javier 5:39 Yes. Chris Yip 5:39 And then you went right to grad school? Joelle Javier 5:41 Yes. I went to what was then Ryerson University and now Toronto Metropolitan University. I did an MEng. Yeah, it was in mechanical engineering, because they did not really have a material science program for their masters. At that time, I was debating between trying for the clinical engineering program at U of T but it was a little bit hard to find supervisors at the time, and it was a very competitive program. There were only I think, a slot for maybe 20 students. And then I was looking into programs at Ryerson at the time, and I came across this mechanical engineering program and the research options included some some stuff for biomaterials and also the amusement ride stuff. So I found Dr. Catherine Woodcock and the THRILL Lab, which studies a lot of human factors in amusement rides. And then once again, I chose something that's not in the bio medical field so I keep saying I want to be a doctor but then I choose something else. Chris Yip 6:47 But I think human factors and amusement park rides you start thinking stresses, right? You start thinking about human reactions to gravitational forces. You think about all that sort of stuff. I think, you know, there's a lot of biomechanics that you are dealing with, right? Joelle Javier 7:03 Yes. Like I do justify it like that, when I'm choosing something. I'm like, It's still related, and I always choose something fun, like even when I was in undergrad, I choose projects that are interesting. It's not conventional. For example, when we were doing heat treatments, I did my projects in chocolate tempering because I'm like, It's the same process for like, whether it's a metal or chocolate or other food, like the same principles apply so things like that. I like doing fun things. Chris Yip 7:36 So I know that chocolate, you get this problem of blooming, right? Where you get recrystallization and it turns white on the top, right? Tempering is to help it solidify better. Is that right? Joelle Javier 7:49 Yes, that's right. So it sounds like you're also a chocolate fan. Chris Yip 7:53 Hey, anytime your experiments are edible, I think that's got to be a win. So human factors, Catherine Woodcock focused on human factors and amusement park rides, right? So the connectivity between those. Did you go right from there into the into the TSSA, the Technical Standards and Safety Authority? Joelle Javier 8:13 Yes. So as part of my experience with the THRILL lab, Dr. Woodcock used to have collaborations with TSSA, she's still does up to this date. And she used to take her students to the CNE [Canadian National Exhibition] for the annual inspections. So we're kind of called the ducklings at the time, because we follow her around, and then we follow the inspectors doing their job, the right inspections. So that's how I got exposed with what TSSA does. Chris Yip 8:44 So in your daily job, what do you do with the TSSA then in your role as a safety engineer? Joelle Javier 8:54 So a lot of my job is actually like office space, like the boring stuff, which is reading codes and regulations, standards. And then I get to review the science submissions, which kind of starts to get into the final part. So to be able to operate right in the province, you need a permit. So to apply for a permit, a third party engineer, which we call submitting engineers would submit a technical dossier, which is a package that would have the drawings of the ride, the specifications, manuals, things like that, and they also do their field tests. And then what I would do then is to review that against the codes and standards for compliance. And then there's usually a back and forth like a question and answer. And then once I'm satisfied, we then register the job or file the submission, and then it goes to inspection. So for something that's brand new, I typically would come to the field with our inspectors, especially for bigger rides, and then I join them for the initial. Chris Yip 10:00 I guess if you sort of draw an analogy to a building inspector, right? Who doesn't build the house, and before you can kind of release the house, right? The inspector goes through the house to make sure the wiring is in the right place and all that sort of stuff. Joelle Javier 10:14 Yes, that's exactly a good analogy. And I should also mention that, even within TSSA, there's a lot of collaboration because I do my review on the mechanical side of the ride. But we also get like an electrical engineering review for the electrical side, which is normally where they get a lot of problems, especially for newer rides. Chris Yip 10:37 Right. So I guess a question. I mean, you assess against the codes, the codes probably change the same way our building codes change, but do you get engaged by the designers earlier? So they come to you and say, "Hey, Joelle, we're interested in doing this. What do you think?" Or do you really focus more on the commissioning level? Joelle Javier 11:02 So this is actually one of my favorite parts of the job as well, because I get to participate in codes and standards committee. So like, I get to help with writing the rules and writing the standards under ASTM. We have the amusement rides committee F24 and we meet like, a minimum of two times a year. And in there, I get to interact with ride manufacturers, also some owners of rides and other engineers. Chris Yip 11:31 And just for our listeners, ASTM is the American Society for Testing and Materials, right? Joelle Javier 11:37 Yes, that used to be their name until they just changed it to ASTM International. Probably because, yeah, they wanted it to be more international and like moving away from the American only side. Chris Yip 11:50 When you talk about the ride manufacturers or owners, I guess, and designers being part of that, do you really get a preview of some of the really innovative designs that are coming out? But they say, you can see the design, but you can't tell anybody about it. Joelle Javier 12:04 Yeah, I do get that opportunity once in a while. Sometimes we do our meetings out of the country, like there was this one time that I went to Germany for a trip and I got a chance to do a behind the scenes tour at one of the ride manufacturers over there and like, yeah, we can't talk about it, but it's really fun to see the ride while it's being made for one of the biggest theme parks in the world. So those things are fun. In terms of what comes into the province, it's not always easy, because a lot of people still need education of like TSSA access and you need right permits. So someone bigger, like Canada's Wonderland, they do try to engage us ahead of the process, because they know of the the TSSA process in the design review. So most of the time, they would engage us early on, and talk to us about the right design, what they wanted in the park, and we get to see the drawings earlier. Chris Yip 13:02 So have you ever run into a situation where you're doing your commissioning inspection and you go actually, this isn't going to work, right? This is out of code or out of spec. Joelle Javier 13:14 It does happen quite a bit. And like it's good that the people are a little bit more flexible. And we also tried to be a little bit more understanding on what can be fixed and what cannot be fixed. So engaging as early on in the process is better for the clients, because they could still do changes in the design because changing it later on in the process ends up being more costly. And you mentioned the building inspection earlier. In a lot of cases for new rides, we actually have a lot of collaboration with the Building Department, the Fire Department and also the Electrical Safety Authority. So there's a lot of things involved in commissioning a new ride. So yeah, it's easier when the review is done initially. TSSA looks at both the fixed amusement rides and also the portable ones and we do periodic inspection so that currently happens once a year. We also get to do kind of like a secret shopper inspection once in a while, which we call operational inspections. So we just show up like a regular customer and watch them operate making sure that they're also following the operational procedures. Chris Yip 14:25 So looking at all the rides and I'll admit that I saw the ride you did on the Yukon Striker video. We're gonna talk a little bit about sort of the outreach stuff you're doing as well, but it strikes me that this is one of the probably the cooler parts of your job is to go and not just walk around and look at the ride but actually ride the ride. Joelle Javier 14:45 Yeah, it's a lot of fun to ride the ride. And I think part of why I have a little bit of an advantage doing what I do is because I'm also a customer and like an adrenaline seeker first, so I can think of Okay, so what would a rider feel? And what would the rider do? So things like that kind of makes it a little bit more easy for me to review the rights. We have some submitting engineers that are not too into the spinning rides so they're like, "Okay, we're not going to feel test that, but I'm gonna get some volunteers to test it for me." Chris Yip 15:21 So what is your most favorite or most memorable ride that you've done? Joelle Javier 15:26 The Yukon Stiker would probably be one of my favorites, because it's a very unique ride in a way that it's almost a 90 degree drop. So that's quite fun. I also really love the Leviathan. I was not fully involved in the design process for that one but it's one of my favorite rides because of the speed and the hype. On the outreach side of it, I taught at the DEEP [Da Vinci Engineering Enrichment Program] program once in terms of amusement ride engineering, and I got to take the high school students on a behind the scenes tour of the Leviathan. So Canada's Wonderland was very gracious in letting us in at the behind the scenes part so I think that the high school students really enjoyed that. And other than the roller coasters and things like that, I also really enjoy going on zipline inspections, because we also regulate ziplines, water slides, and even bouncy castles. So those are a lot of fun to inspect too. Chris Yip 16:26 So with a zipline inspection, what do you look for there? I guess they're not really permanent, right? They take them out of the winter, right? Joelle Javier 16:36 It actually stays there. Like most of the time, the zip line stays there year round. Chris Yip 16:40 Is it cables fraying? Or is there a safety stop at the end? And that sort of stuff? Are they making sure the trees aren't like growing over the line so people stop running into it? Right? Joelle Javier 16:49 Yeah. The end terminations of the ziplines are very important to make sure that it's secured. And then you have to maintain the tension so that it doesn't have too much sag and then in terms of the braking, you can't hit the tree. Chris Yip 17:10 In the TSSA inspections that you look at, how much of your inspection covers the safety protocols that the operator has? Or are they all embedded? If you're going to go on the Yukon Striker ride, for instance, the TSSA standard, does it enforce things like minimum rider size or minimum height? Joelle Javier 17:31 Yes, so a lot of the heavyweight for that really is on the onus for the designer. So the designer, we expect them to be designing the ride to meet the acceleration requirements. So most of the time, the restraint type depends on the acceleration that a person experiences or even other risk factors, like how high is the ride. For my side, I also look a lot at the operational side and also the maintenance procedures that they have inspection procedures because a design can only do so much, you still need to make sure that you have well trained people to be operating your ride and also maintenance also plays a huge part. Especially there's a lot of rides that are, what we call aging ride, like over 10 years of age, so you need to make sure you're looking after them. A lot of these rides are like millions of dollars to invest in. So they're made to last a long time. Chris Yip 18:29 What do you see coming down the pipe in terms of amusement park rides?Where's the next innovation? You talked about Yukon Striker having like a 90 degree drop. What else is coming down the pipe? Joelle Javier 18:39 The trend that's happening seems to be everybody wants something bigger, faster, taller, but there's also a wish for a lot of virtual reality. So there's starting to be a combination of using, I don't know, I'm getting questions from people asking like, Oh, can we add virtual reality goggles for a go kart? It kind of sounds like a bad idea to me at the moment so I feel like something like that would need a little bit more testing. But I'm also hearing some things about augmented reality. So that's kind of doing your go kart, kind of having a Mario Kart component if you love video games so that's kind of a dream for a lot of people because even I think that's gonna be fun but in terms of the safety side, I think a lot of risks analyses still need to be done to see how you could do that safely while still being fun. Chris Yip 19:34 There's something about being on a ride where you're outside, you're worried about your hat blowing off, everybody wants to jump to be the first in the car type thing, right? I can't see being enthused about a virtual reality roller...I just I... Joelle Javier 19:49 They've actually tried it like one year at Canada's Wonderland. I'm not sure if they're still doing it, but I was there on that inspection. It was on the Vortex roller coaster. So you you can wear the virtual reality goggles, and then go on the roller coaster and then what you can see is basically the same track but in cartoon mode and then you pretend like you're in, I think it was a mine. Like, I'm personally not a big fan of the virtual reality, I think reality is still a little bit more exciting. Chris Yip 20:23 What's the limit now on what people do? Is part of it the amount of time it takes to go through the ride? Are there guidelines that say that you can't make a ride go faster than a certain speed? Joelle Javier 20:33 The limits are normally acceleration based so there's only so much acceleration a body can take. Right now there's a lot of data for mechanical rides like roller coasters but there's current studies being done for waterslide acceleration measurement, it's not that easy to measure for water slides, because you're not restrained so your body is kind of like freely moving. Yeah. So there, it's not that easy. The research that's going into that, same with ziplines, because you are harnessed but you can still move from side to side. And like for water slides, the design is getting a little bit more complicated, like you will see drop slides where the floor would drop and then you'll go through it. There's like aqua loops that would go like 180 degrees and there's like fast ones that's basically a water coaster so it's like a water slide with some propulsion. Chris Yip 21:27 So Joelle, in addition to your work with the TSSA, I know and this is, as I mentioned earlier on the Yukon Striker video, that you've done a lot in the area of engineering outreach to students both through U of T and a number of other organizations as well. Can you give our listeners a bit of sense of some of these other activities? Joelle Javier 21:48 Yeah, so recently, I've been involved with doing some sessions and interviews for the CAGIS, which is the Canadian Association for Girls in Science. I think that's really a lot of fun trying to motivate young girls to get into STEM. So not just engineering, but all the other fields of STEM. And in the U of T community I've also done some volunteer stuff with the U of T Hatchery, which is really exciting to be involved in because you get to see different startup pitches and then you get to judge which one you think is reasonable and could come into fruition in real life. And I love how they're solving a lot of real life issues in a very innovative way. Chris Yip 22:33 Well, I want to wrap up, but I'm gonna ask you one last question. You've told this story to all of our listeners right now, which is fascinating. When you tell your story, either through outreach, or through these podcasts and stuff, what message would you like to give the next generation of engineers? Joelle Javier 22:49 I would really advise everyone to follow their passion. Because there's something in there that would really ground you when you're doing something that you love. And when you're doing something you love, you never have to work a single day in your life. So that's something that I really live by. And like, it's really important to always be able to give back and inspire people. I guess, to me, it's important to do this, because during my whole career as a student like, and even in my early years as a young professional in this field, like I've been inspired, inspired by a lot of role models. So I feel like I owe it to them to also be able to do the same with the young generations. Chris Yip 23:30 Thank you so much. Those are terrific words to to inspire our next generation, inspire our current generation actually. Find that passion, get energized. So terrific. Thank you so much Joelle for taking time today to chat on on this podcast. Joelle Javier 23:47 Thank you, Dean. It's really fun to do this. Chris Yip 23:53 Thanks again for listening to Coffee with Chris Yip. If you want to catch up on past episodes, or make sure that you don't miss the next one, please subscribe. We're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and more. Just look for Coffee with Chris Yip. You can also check out @uoftengineering on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn for more stories about how our community is building a better world. And finally, if you'd be inspired to join us, we'd love to welcome you. Whether you're thinking of taking a degree or working with us on a research project, you can find us online at engineering.utoronto.ca or you can visit our beautiful campus in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. I hope I can join you for coffee soon.