Chris Yip 0:01 Welcome to Tell Me More: Coffee with Chris Yip, the official podcast of the Faculty of Applied Science and Engineering at the University of Toronto. Each month, I sit down with someone from our vibrant global community to talk about what places them at the heart of designing bold solutions for a better world. You'll meet students, professors and alumni who are making a difference across a range of fields including some where you may not expect to find them. This is a special edition of our podcast in celebration of the 150th anniversary of our faculty. I'm joined by two guests who can offer some perspective on the past, present and future of Skule. Marta Ecsedi is a graduate of our Department of Civil and Mineral Engineering, class of '76 and was the first woman president of the U of T Engineering Society, also known as EngSoc. She has gone on to champion a more inclusive engineering profession through a series of leadership roles, including here at the faculty and Professional Engineers Ontario. Aidan Grenville is a fourth year engineering science student majoring in aerospace engineering and is currently the president of insock. Welcome, Marta and Aidan. How's it going? Marta Ecsedi 1:13 Great. Thank you for having me here, Chris. Nice to meet you, Aidan. Aidan Grenville 1:17 Great as well, here. Yes. Thank you. Nice to meet you, as well, Marta. Chris Yip 1:20 What a great idea, right? Hear from the presidents of EngSoc, past and present, to sort of talk about what was it like in the day and what is it like in the day, I guess, is the way to frame it. [laughing] So first off, tell our listeners a little bit about yourself, how you grew up, and when you realized engineering was for you. So I'm going to start with Marta. Marta Ecsedi 1:38 Okay, so my background, I was born in Budapest, Hungary. I came out after the Hungarian Revolution. I arrived in Canada in January 1958. My father was a civil engineer and my mother was an architectural engineer. Five aunts, and 3 uncles who were all engineers, all graduates of the Technical University of Budapest. And just to put that into perspective, the reason so many women were engineers at the Technical University of Budapest was after the war, so many men had died. So TUB had reached out, and was accepting women. So that's a precursor to how I got involved in, in women in engineering. It was just very natural for me to pick engineering. My parents were involved at the University of Waterloo when it was being built and my father, as a civil engineer, my mum was an architect on the math building. So Sunday afternoons, we would go off to the University of Waterloo as an outing. So it was just a natural for me to pick civil engineering. Chris Yip 2:38 Aidan. Aidan Grenville 2:39 Yeah, sure. So, um, I come from sort of a family with quite a lot of engineers. And so, you know, it was something that I guess had already been planted in my mind a little bit growing up. But not really, I don't think I ever really saw it as something that I was particularly interested in until high school, when I really would credit it to first robotics, which is, for those who don't know, is sort of a high school design competition, I guess, where you work in teams to build these robots for a new challenge every year. And I just found it so fun. It was I think the team aspect that got me. I was, I just found it inspiring that sort of all of these students coming together like you were a sports team, but it was for sort of those of us who didn't necessarily want to run around the field as much. And so I, I just, you know, it gave me a ton of joy. And I guess I, you know, there were people I looked up to when I was in freshman year, and they were in senior year, and they went on to do engineering. And I was like, You know what this is, this is something I would like to do. And I was reassured as well by the fact that my mother who trained as an engineer actually has not worked as an engineer, basically, since the day she graduated university. So I was like, Well, this is a great path to go into policy or to go into some other really productive and interesting careers. And over the course of my time here at U of T so far, I think I've discovered maybe aerospace isn't necessarily where I want to end up. Through PEY and through doing some research here I discovered a great interest in sustainable urban transportation, and how that can kind of be a force for good, and especially how it intersects with governance and policy. So moving a little bit more into the civ realm myself. Yeah, it's been a great four years of discovery. Chris Yip 4:13 Just for our listeners, we'll just make the caveat statement that all EngSoc presidents don't have to have a lineage of engineering in order to become the EngSoc president. [laughing] Aidan Grenville 4:21 This is completely true. Marta Ecsedi 4:22 This is completely true. I know many EngSoc presidents who didn't have the lineage. And just to add, my parents did not pushed me to engineering. It was by osmosis. I actually wanted to be a lawyer at one point and then I decided maths and science were more my forte. Chris Yip 4:41 Engineers evolved a lot. So going to Marta and I pointed out you're from the class of '76, and admittedly, I'm from the class of '88 so I'm a little bit after you. Well, let me ask you, what do you remember about the faculty at that time? Marta Ecsedi 4:55 I think the thing that jumps out at me the most at the time, off I went first year and, and it was a shock to me for coming out of an all-girls school into an all-male faculty. I mean, I looked around and there were seven other women in my first year class. So that was a big shock. But the other thing that was a shock was was computers. And at the time back in the 70s, and you will not know this, is one floor of the Sanford Fleming building was just a mainframe computer. It wasn't until second or third year that we actually had desktop computers and I can't remember the language, don't ask me what language we were learning. But even in my third year, when I was working for a PhD student in transportation engineering, we were still using key punch cards. The big thing at the time, I think, was the whole evolution to computer engineering, and using computation and computers, in all facets of our studies, you know, standing in line with my box of key punch cards at once. One time I didn't number and yeah, you know what that story is? (Chris: Yep) Dumped out. And I had to take my scroll of, you know, figuring out which card went where. So I think that's the biggest change in the four years I was there, the evolution from mainframe computers to desktops to computer labs and, and what I learned that technology. Chris Yip 6:21 I'll say that when I came in, we didn't use punch cards, but we had bubble cards. So it's like, instead of punching a hole, we had to color it in with a black pencil. Marta Ecsedi 6:30 Oh that's even worse. Chris Yip 6:32 I know, exactly. But we had exactly the same problem. Make sure you don't mess up the order and all that sort of stuff. But I think Aidan, you know, these are traumatic things that we won't, we won't - we should bring it back to first year and see if the students are like what is this? Aidan Grenville 6:46 People are interested in historical technology, I can say that I mean, you know retro often becomes cool again. Marta Ecsedi 6:53 It's like showing my - we have a dial phone, and I show that to my grandchildren and they have no idea how to use it. Chris Yip 7:00 I tell you, you know, we all went digital for film and cameras and suddenly, the articles talking about film cameras are coming back. There are people still buying film and you know, there's going to be resurgence of this sort of stuff. Aidan Grenville 7:12 I can actually tell you, I think this orientation just in the fall of 2022 was the first in a very long time to bring back film cameras. We actually had such a demand from people who wanted film cameras to then, you know, get film photography to put on social media, because it looks cool that we actually bought several film cameras for people to use, in addition to the normal digital cameras, but our photography team was going around with film. Chris Yip 7:36 Okay, that's super cool. I did not know that. That is very cool. Marta, I mean, you talked a little bit about changes in the technology from the education side. Do you remember much about what was on the research end? Marta Ecsedi 7:47 Okay, well, I can tell you that the particular project I was working on, and actually one of you asked what my favorite subjects were and they were surveying, and I was a TA in survey camp, and traffic, engineering, transportation. And so the project was to do with trying to determine the positioning of cars, depending on the size of the lane. So I would survey the lanes. And so we went downtown Toronto, Jarvis Street, we went to wider lanes, and then we went to a ways I will tell you the conclusion was that drivers hug the right side of the lane. Like I was the person doing the surveying, and it was actually was Eric Miller who was the PhD student at the time. Yeah. Chris Yip 8:35 Cool. And Eric continues to be a phenomenal researcher here and still in the transportation space, right? Leading our Transportation Research Institute. I know as we were sort of doing the preamble into this, we're talking a lot about sort of social activities, and so Marta, what were some of your most favorite, we'll just call it social activities during the day? Marta Ecsedi 8:56 Well, I was the chair of the social committee. I took over in January of my first year because the previous social committee chair failed out. And so I decided, okay, I can I can do this social committee, but I'm not gonna be as social. So I ran Spring Rites Festival, Oktoberfest, and I had a great committee so I don't say I ran it myself, but we had a lot and we had pub nights. We didn't call it Suds back then. I think it was just Friday Night Pub, dances and those kinds of activities. One of the things that will be different way back then and I'm glad that there is now way more female representation entering for our dances we would invite the physiotherapy and nursing faculties. Now, that was how we would be able to have dancers because we didn't have enough coed students to to just have it on our own. Those were for me the fun things I supported other activities like the solar car, which was a big thing. No, it wasn't the solar car, sorry, sorry, it was the electric car. I supported the solar car when I came back to work at the Faculty and the concrete canoe was a big thing in civil engineering. It was a fun time...a very, very fun time. Chris Yip 10:12 And I think it's still I mean, it's amazing to think like the legacy and we've been seeing this as the 150th has been rolling forward and just seeing the pictures and seeing the events and things that the students were doing and just the legacy of of these design teams or these events. So many cool memories for folks, right? Marta Ecsedi 10:28 I shouldn't forget, I'm sorry, should not forget Skule Night, one of my favorite favorite activities, like not that I participate, I haven't got an artistic bone in my body. I loved going every year and since. Skule Night is the engineering comedy/musical review to many, many students participate in and have a great time doing. Aidan Grenville 10:50 I'm right with you, Marta. I love watching it, I don't have an artistic bone in my body. I've helped them a couple years ago when it was during the pandemic, I helped them by driving things to and from the different cast members houses. And that was about the extent of my contribution that I can reasonably offer. Marta Ecsedi 11:06 Well, maybe I'll see you there. I'm usually there on opening night because it's alumni night with this initiative I started when I was Director of Alumni Relations. So be there on opening night. Chris Yip 11:17 So Aidan, like how given what Marta has told us about life at Skule, like what what has changed, what's remained the same what what has evolved, I guess? Aidan Grenville 11:26 I think, you know, just a really healthy sense of involvement in Skule spirit. To me, it always is impressive the lengths that people are willing to go with that, staying up late or, you know, putting a great amount of energy into their club or design team. I think that's really one of the things that's been constant. What people do and what they're, you know, challenged by and what they're discovering, I think changes every year obviously, with, you know, a lot of these legacies continuing whether that's the canoe team, which is still going strong, concrete toboggan competed just last weekend in Kelowna so the sense of involvement as a default, I think is fabulous and it's something that we really just enjoy, here in U of T Engineering. But there's also been, you know, great new things like now, it's a new tradition since about 12 years ago, to go to the pride parade as a huge group about 150 people every June. You know, I love that, I think it's such a great celebration of where you know, where we've gotten to. There's other events that are, you know, put on by our cultural student associations so, you know, just tomorrow, for example, there's Bollywood Suds, that's, you know, partially put on by the Indian Students Association. So, I think it's just, it's really, it's really so exciting. I mean, there's so much happening on campus, it's impossible to kind of keep track of all of it, but the, just, I think that the variety of everything is amazing and it really is cool that people are bringing all of their sort of, like personal and I guess, professional identities, if you will, whether that's, you know, a research or an interest, sorry, and in law as well, and we have teams that are, you know, are clubs that are looking at, like, the ethics of AI, and there's, you know, a group of people that meet every week or two and do research on this, because they're interested. So I think it's just, it's great to kind of be able to in EngSoc, you know, in some small way, provide the platform to help make these things, these things possible. You know, even amongst my close friends, there's people who are, you know, studying x but super interested in y and then also love to write poetry and are like taking a minor in English. And like, that's just, I find that so cool to see that, you know, it really, I think, indicates the breadth of what engineering means and how it's, it's a way to get this really broad and foundational education in science and math, but it's also so much more than that at the same time, and whether that's also, you know, the blurring of the lines, a little bit of, you know, how can we combine, for example, like chemical and civil engineering, I think there's, there's so much more, you know, appetite and interest in that. Chris Yip 13:43 It's interesting to think about, you know, how many students coming to engineering are drawn to engineering, not because of the discipline, but because of the opportunities to do other things. I mean this, Marta, this wasn't maybe around when you came through, we [brief pause] in minors and certificates now that definitely didn't exist, right? Marta Ecsedi 14:01 Not at all. Not, none of them existed. I mean, and certainly in my day, you did not do a major and a minor, in anything, Chris Yip 14:10 Yea, you didn't, you didn't really, you probably didn't step out of Galbraith. Marta Ecsedi 14:16 Mining building and Galbraith connected to Sanford Fleming that was like set and Wahlberg for chemistry. Chris Yip 14:22 Yeah, I think, you know, Aidan can comment a little bit about like, where are we now even from where Aidan, when you came in four years ago to where we are now, in terms of just the breadth of opportunities for students, like do you think, you actually think it's a driver. Aidan Grenville 14:35 I think it is. I mean, and this is maybe an interesting way of looking at it, but I'd almost say students coming in have less of an idea of what engineering is than at any time before and in the best possible way, right? Because precisely because people go and do these super interesting things with their lives after and that kind of provides the launchpad for them so I find that almost more inspiring, and I mean, engineering science also that's one of, one of the things that attracted me to it is precisely because you don't have to choose for the first two years, but even people who are doing, you know, degrees in chemical engineering or civil engineering are going and doing these fascinating things that are, you know, wouldn't at all have maybe been traditionally considered in the purview of that field but, you know, through collaborations through the other experiences on campus, whether that's a minor or even just, you know, um, design team, I think people almost don't know what they're getting themselves in for, but in, you know, in a good way, right? It's that you, you really can go anywhere after. And so there's not this one notion of what an engineering degree is, and it's kind of you make it your own, you customize it. And it's just a, yeah, it's a great launchpad for whatever you do next. Chris Yip 15:40 Differences in the program and changes in the program and opportunities that, as we were saying didn't exist, but I want to reinforce that I think maybe with a few name changes, our core departments haven't shifted, Marta, from when you were through, right? CivMin is now, it's still CivMin but you know Geo became into Min, and Indy was separate from Mechanical and then they merged and a few things like that. And then there's always EngSci, which is constantly not reinventing itself, but kind of moving. Marta Ecsedi 16:09 Evolving, evolving. Chris Yip 16:11 Evolving! Yeah, that's it, and things move in and out. But there have been some really cool opportunities that have emerged, I guess, for us. And I think it really reflects something Aidan said earlier, which is around, you come in, you don't know what engineers do, or you thought, but then it's it's changing over the past few decades. And I think, I'm going to start with Aidan with this one, but in the 70s, there was no ISTEP, which was our Institute for Studies and Transdisciplinary Education, or Engineering, and Practice. Our Engineering Communications Program didn't exist, the Engineering Outreach Office didn't exist. But the Entrepreneurship Hatchery didn't exist, we didn't have the Troost ILead program, PEY, Professional Experience Year was probably just starting to emerge. How do you think these, call them tools, these platforms, these opportunities, or these programs, have changed or affect the student experience? Aidan Grenville 17:04 Well, I think it really just, you know, contributes to the broadening of what engineering means. And using what you know, and using the tools you have in math and science to solve these kinds of challenging problems, which is, you know, it's what we know it is, but I think that's become so much more and the types of problems we're solving have become much broader. I mean, I can certainly credit the PEY program with, or at least, you know, my jobs through the PEY program with kind of introducing me to a new side of engineering, to transportation engineering, which I hadn't really been exposed to, and actually, you know, found a great interest in to the point that I'm considering doing graduate school there. And I mean, what I what I'd like to think is that kind of, we've maintained the ability for folks that do know what they want to do, and have that really defined interest in that, you know, maybe query interest or industry interest to go through and just get that, you know, quality education and preparation, but also, at the same time allowing people to come in and be like, well, you know, I'm coming into engineering science, but I have no clue what I want to do when I go out. And to instead, you know, kind of whether that's through the clubs or design teams, or ILead, develop your leadership skills, and through ISTEP, maybe take a course in another department entirely. For me, I was able to take electives in the Urban Geography Department and had some really fascinating courses, I wouldn't have been exposed to it all otherwise. So I think there's just the impact of any given one of the programs doesn't reach everyone, but overall, they kind of do broaden the student experience. Give people that kind of support, and that safety net, if you will, to change their interests partway through their degree and to make it their own. Marta Ecsedi 18:31 And I know of these programs, because I have the wonderful opportunity of being the Director of Alumni Relations for five years. I saw a lot of these programs coming into this and thinking, oh, my, had they been there from 1972 to 1976, I would have taken every opportunity to avail myself of one or all or whichever ones would have been applicable. What I've seen through my time, as an undergraduate, my time as an employee of the Faculty and alumni is such an evolution of the Faculty and the ability of the Faculty to be able to put these programs into place. I do want to say, back in the 70s, we were a very small faculty. Incoming classes were 450, not 1500. So our undergraduate program was maybe 2500. So it would not necessarily support it, these types of wonderful programs. So I think the faculty was able to evolve because of the increase in enrollment, which is wonderful. Now, I will speak on behalf of the Civil Engineering Department in my day, they did do some of these things in a small way. (Chris: Right.) Like we did have public speaking courses, it was actually mandatory. (Chris: Yep). We did have a person who you could go to for communications, writing, that kind of advice. So some of these things that are now an overall faculty program, I can only speak to civil engineering we had, I don't know about the other departmenta. So but I know I would have availed myself of some of these things if they've been available. PEY I'm not so sure about. I really like just having my summer jobs and having that eight week break, and getting back to it in September. So but I don't know if it had been there. You don't know what you would do. I chose not to go to Waterloo, I was accepted to Waterloo, because I did not like the idea of every four months, going somewhere else. That to me, the the lack of continuity, I think PEY might have been more appealing. Chris Yip 20:37 So Marta, I'm gonna ask you this question because you had your your leadership role in PEO, who is doing engineering now? Marta Ecsedi 20:45 Well, I'm very happy to report that a very diverse group of people are doing engineering, more so than in the 70s. Go back to alluding to the fact that, you know, there were so few women, the entire faculty only had 14 Women in my first year. So that alone has created diversity, and just influx of international students. To me, like you can't pinpoint a particular person or type of person, I think, certain skills you have to show you want, you definitely have to know math and science, I mean, you can't be an engineer without having those basic core skills. But then on top of that, you want to be innovative, you want to be creative. I think engineers are probably the most creative, I am biased, of course, as all of us are, most creative people in the world. Because look at all the things that that have been created by an engineer. The CN tower, that went up in my fourth year. We were there when the big helicopter put the top on the CN Tower. Memorable for me, and the fact that one of my professors designed the foundations for that, that building. So I just think engineers are a very diverse group of people and now, the fact that we have so many more women in the profession makes it even more diverse. Chris Yip 22:04 Let me ask Aidan, what are your thoughts as well, like, if you're looking back at your friends and look at what people were doing? I think the other question is maybe the career trajectories of people coming through engineering now. Aidan Grenville 22:15 Yeah, I mean, I can say that there's far from obviously far from one background. I think that especially the the folks in our student leadership positions currently, like there is, you know, certainly when you look over the past few years, it's just you can't point to one type of person that does this. And that's, I think, a really inspiring thing. So you know, more people can see themselves as an engineer, which I think is brilliant. And I think that also, you know, as far as I said, there, there are these core skills, but increasingly, there's these other skills that I think are actually becoming necessary to work in the profession. When I was on PEY, you know, we did a lot of work in policy, to be honest, and you know, it is, it was transportation and that's something that's inherently embedded in a political context in the city but it was just kind of expected, like everyone was comfortable talking about that, we did a lot of writing, we would speak to sort of councils, etc. and that was just seen as a role as an engineer and I think in the past, you know, I can't speak to what that looked like in the past but it wasn't what I expected. I guess, going into that job, I expected it to be a lot more divorced from the engineers design it and then someone else makes it happen and instead the engineers were all the way through that pipeline. Marta Ecsedi 23:22 With my class, everyone did civil, pure civil engineering after graduating. And then many of us evolved to go beyond the core engineering, civil engineering, into areas of policy or finance or whatever. We didn't have the opportunities that you guys have, Aidan. And I'm glad you're taking every opportunity to embrace them. Aidan Grenville 23:48 But it's given me the perspective of, you know, a globally and be a very broad perspective and engineering. I mean, looking at just some of my friends who are your older, there's, they're already doing everything from graduate work in the Netherlands, to working in California and it's kind of just this, like, it's inspiring to see you know, where they're going and to, you know, think that I can also be a part of that. Chris Yip 24:10 We're gonna wrap up in a sec, but I do want to ask, like, the big question, and I've always framed it this way, as we we've been talking this past year, you know, the past 150 years have set the foundation of Skule, where do you think we're gonna be in the next 150 years? What's your view of engineering at U of T, of Skule? The discipline, I'm just going to leave it open to you and I'm gonna, I'm gonna start. I'm gonna start with Aidan on this one. Aidan Grenville 24:34 Putting me on the spot, eh? Well, I mean, you know, I think as much as it's impossible to predict the future, I do think it's very bright. And just, you know, I'm really inspired when I look at the folks we have here, their interests, their passions, their willingness to sort of do what's right and stand up for what they believe in is something I super admire and I think, you know, I do believe that we're kind of, especially here on campus, we're made by the people here and it's something that I mean, there's one of the coolest things is that you can, you know, at least the undergraduate student community is very much made in the image of who's here at the time. And that changes so frequently that I think it can be really a, it's very reflective. So I would say, lots of good things, engineering continue to be, you know, continuing to be expanded. You know what that means? Who does it mean? How does it work? I'm not sure I can precisely say what what will be happening in 50 years, but I know that they'll still be, you know, this sort of problem solving mentality and yeah, I hope they'll, you know, kind of will continue to sort of hold our high standards and be out there in the world and try to solve the problems. Chris Yip 25:35 Marta. Marta Ecsedi 25:36 Okay. Well, I look back on the 50 years since I started at Skule, and now you're asking me to multiply that by three. Everything happens exponentially. Like if I, if I look back on the 50 years in my career, and starting at Bell Canada with a rotary dial black phone in front of me with only one line and when I retired 36 years later, I was building an entire cellular network for clear net, Telus Mobility. Would I have predicted in 50, or 36 years of my career that that would happen. No, but it happened exponentially. And, and I think that's what's going to continue to happen, is all these, have to stay on top of the technology but we also have to stay on top of how the technology is used. So long as we continue to have wonderful students, (Chris: Which we will.) wonderful alumni, great professors, and wonderful deans and I think school will be in good hands in 150. Chris Yip 26:41 Terrific, thanks. I think those are amazing points. But I do want to point out, one thing you didn't, neither of you mentioned, but I'm going to point out is like, my hope would be that so many of our strong traditions, Skule Night, the concrete canoe, maybe won't be concrete at that point, but something you know, solar car, all these things the evolution of even Formula SAE went from gas, and now it's electric. Some of these core traditions remain and are still going to be there strong and going 150 years. So at school 300 there will be a Skule Night 300. You know, they'll still have the Suds, maybe called something else. But they'll still be the Suds Pub or something like that still running because I think those are the kind of traditions and memories that we all retain as we go through the program. And I think this really is the one thing that is the one element of engineering and Skule is really about the community that you build while you're here and the community that you build as you move through your careers as we start to connect with others and you realize how many U of T Engineering alums are out there and are part of this broader community and I think that's what's super exciting about about engineering. And it's, I think, a key driver that brings people here and makes them enjoy the experience, all of it. Not just the midterms, but all the other good stuff as well. Marta Ecsedi 28:00 Enjoy midterms? Chris Yip 28:02 Well, you know... Marta Ecsedi 28:03 That's an oxymoron. Chris Yip 28:05 All in, all in moderation is always in retrospect. It always is. You've learned something. Marta Ecsedi 28:12 The whole experience is good. Chris Yip 28:14 Marta, Aidan, I want to thank you so much for taking time today to do this conversation. Absolutely a ton of fun and so great to reminisce about what it was like, what it is now and to think a little bit about where we're headed. Thank you again, so much for taking the time today to be here on the podcast. Aidan Grenville 28:32 Thank you. Marta Ecsedi 28:32 Thank you, very enjoyable. Chris Yip 28:35 Thanks again for listening to Coffee with Chris Yip. If you want to catch up on past episodes, or make sure that you don't miss the next one, please subscribe. We're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and more. Just look for Coffee with Chris Yip. You can also check out @uoftengineering on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn for more stories about how our community is building a better world. And finally, if you'd be inspired to join us, we'd love to welcome you. Whether you're thinking of taking a degree or working with us on our research project you can find us online at engineering.utoronto.ca or you can visit our beautiful campus in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. I hope I can join you for coffee soon. Transcribed by https://otter.ai