Liane Catalfo 0:00 I didn't realize how applicable all the engineering skills were until actually going into the business world. So when we look at flows and input and output, sure, I did that with chemicals, but now we look at the flow of people, or the flow of data, or just other types of aspects through different systems, and look at how to optimize it. Chris Yip 0:22 Welcome to Tell Me More: Coffee with Chris Yip, the official podcast of the Faculty of Applied Science and Engineering at the University of Toronto. Each month, I sit down with someone from our vibrant global community to talk about what places them at the heart of designing bold solutions for a better world. You'll meet alumni, students and professors who are making a difference across a range of fields, including some where you may not expect to find them. My guest today is U of T Engineering alumna Liane Catalfo. Liane earned her Bachelor of Applied Science and her Master's of Engineering in chemical engineering with us, fellow alum of Chem Eng, I love it. Today, she's applying her knowledge and skills as a senior manager in health and life sciences consulting at Deloitte. We're very lucky that Leanne has returned to U of T engineering to serve as President of the Engineering Alumni Network, or the EAN for short. Liane, welcome to the podcast. Liane Catalfo 1:17 Thanks, Chris. Nice to see you. Chris Yip 1:19 Nice to see you. This is gonna be a ton of fun. We've always got this question that starts off stuff, how did you get engineering? How did you pick Chem Eng? I'm gonna want to know how you picked Chem Eng, because I'm a Chem Eng alum and we're gonna compare notes. Liane Catalfo 1:31 Perfect. So what drew me to U of T Engineering is in high school, loved science and math, had no idea what I wanted to do, and actually attended a women in engineering event here at University of Toronto, and I remember coming, and everyone was in coveralls, and there was some purple somewhere, and we got to do a really kind of cool project whereby we had to design a contraption and put the egg in and drop it in the atrium in SUDS. And the entire experience meeting other high school women who were interested in science, and then just the entire University of Toronto Community. While I was there, interacting with undergrads, grads, faculty, I was instantly hooked. And I left that day saying, I am going to be a U of T engineer. Chris Yip 2:19 That was it. Liane Catalfo 2:20 And nothing was gonna stop me. Chris Yip 2:21 Oh, man, so, so the obvious question. Liane Catalfo 2:24 Yeah. Chris Yip 2:24 Did your egg survive the drop? Liane Catalfo 2:26 [Laughs] all I remember are the coveralls and all the cheering, but yeah, I remember just being so impressed with everyone that I met in the entire sense of community. And obviously University of Toronto is world renowned for their engineering programs. So yeah. Chris Yip 2:43 That's great. I mean, you hit something as you were saying, I was thinking exactly the same thing, that our students are really part of this community, right? And you get the real sense of how, I guess, open, inclusive, sort of friendly it is, and it's not competitive, right? Other than trying to make sure your egg doesn't crash and break. That's your internal competition. We're all about, it's amazing to think like they're, they're, it's just welcoming, right? Liane Catalfo 3:07 Completely welcoming and such a sense of teamwork and I'm a huge swimmer, so I've always been part of a swim team, life guarding, always doing that in a team as well. So it fit really nicely with a lot of the values that I have as well. And why chemical engineering? Chris Yip 3:21 Yeah! No, this is super important, yeah. Liane Catalfo 3:24 I used to love chemistry in grade 11 and 12. Absolutely loved chemistry, was probably my favorite course. I think that changed throughout my undergrad. Looking back, I may have changed to a different discipline however, I loved it, and what it really...the part of chemical engineering that I always gravitated towards was the health and life sciences aspect of things, which is where my career has ended up. Chris Yip 3:45 So you, you did your undergrad and then you went to grad school, right? Liane Catalfo 3:50 Yes. Chris Yip 3:50 So what was that like? What was that transition like? Liane Catalfo 3:54 I still, I wanted to continue to learn. I felt like there was still more that I could learn at the University at the time, so really wanted to do my Masters of Engineering, and in particular, why I decided to do the MEng program. Two reasons. One was I really wanted to learn the business side of engineering, so how you can start applying all the kind of the practical things that we've learned in science, and how you can think about it from, how can this be more efficient? How can we look at cost management? How can we solve some challenging business problems? And the second reason for the MEng was I knew that it was a program that had a lot of international people as well who were participating in the program, and I really wanted to expand my network. Chris Yip 4:39 Did you have any, I guess, experience during an undergrad that showed you the business side is really where you wanted to head towards? Liane Catalfo 4:45 So there were a couple of courses. Joe Paradi had an economics course and a business and entrepreneur course that I really enjoyed. And yeah, just really taking some of those theories and making it very, very practical that we learned in school. I didn't realize how applicable all the engineering skills were until actually going into the business world. So when we look at flows and input and output, sure, I did that with chemicals, but now we look at the flow of people, or the flow of data, or like just other types of aspects through different systems, and look at how to optimize it. Chris Yip 5:20 I've sort of seen how our courses have evolved. We've got our business minors now, entrepreneurship, all these sorts of things. Do you think those are good ideas? Liane Catalfo 5:27 Absolutely, as an employer as well, it's great to have the foundational pieces are so critical, and then based on individuals' interests and where they where they want to go then adding those complementary courses just give you that extra level of experience or depth of knowledge that you can then apply. Chris Yip 5:47 Right. When in undergrad, I now know we've got, there's a design team, which is actually an engineering student consulting group. Did you do any of that kind of stuff when you went undergrad? Or did you wish that was available? Liane Catalfo 5:57 So definitely wish there was more of it that was available so it's awesome to hear that there's things like that. Yeah, I was very involved in, there was the UTEC, University of Toronto Engineering Competition, and then the Ontario Engineering Competition, and then at the national level as well. So I had the opportunity to participate in some of those consulting competitions, and it was an incredible experience. So it's basically four or five people from University of Toronto, you get a problem, and then you have a defined period of time. Chris Yip 5:57 A very short period of time. Liane Catalfo 6:03 Very short period of time, about two or three hours, maybe. You have to solve the problem, you have to present your ideas of how you solve the problem, and then you actually have to communicate and share it back. And it was, yeah, an invigorating experience, because you're working in that team, you're under that time pressure, you're trying to solve these massive problems, and then get to share your ideas with people in industry. And that was definitely something that led to a bit of more of my business interest for sure. Chris Yip 6:54 How do you think your colleagues — you're at Deloitte now — how do you think they would fare if we brought them into a UTEC competition and said, because it's a similar model, right? Consulting problem, you got a time to find, you got to, how do you think they would do? Liane Catalfo 7:11 So, I would stack my team with University of Toronto engineers [laughs]. Chris Yip 7:14 Perfect, that's just a straight answer. Liane Catalfo 7:16 It's, it's very similar. We have these ambiguous problems that we need to help solve, and just creating a framework around and structure around, how are you going to solve that problem? So whether it be looking at people, process, technology, data lens, or maybe you're looking at how to actually choose an option, is it desirable? Is it feasible, looking at those types of criteria? So I think just thinking in a framework perspective, and then applying that to solve the problem and showing that structured thinking, I think Deloitte would do pretty well. Chris Yip 7:52 It's awesome that you're volunteering. You're part of the Engineering Alumni Network. Why? Is it for the swag? Is it for like the... Liane Catalfo 8:01 The swag is pretty cool! I do love my Skule™ baseball cap. Honestly, the university just gave so much to me while I was here that it's just such an honor to be able to give back in any capacity that I can, whether about that be through connecting with fellow alumni or connecting with students, connecting with the faculty, but really just helping to continue to make this place incredibly awesome, and feeling that strong sense of community and academic pride. And it's truly an honor to be able to continue to volunteer and give back. It's just it's energizing being on campus, and whether it be virtual, actually or physically on campus, is just energizing being able to listen to some of the leading practices in any field in particular, it could be very deep in science, or it could be an interest like business, and then having the opportunity to connect with other students, whether they be also working right now, or maybe some are just doing, like, more full-time grad school. Chris Yip 9:03 You said it, it's an energizing environment. There's just that buzz, right? Liane Catalfo 9:07 Completely agree. Yeah, it's energizing, it's motivating and I love it. Chris Yip 9:13 So, so EAN. Liane Catalfo 9:16 Yes. Chris Yip 9:16 Can you give our listeners a little bit of what is EAN and how does it function? Liane Catalfo 9:21 Yeah, so the Engineering Alumni Network board brings together alumni who graduated from the Faculty. It brings together students. It brings together the faculty as well, and how alumni can continue to contribute in the way that makes sense for them, given where they are at their point in time. So some of the cool things that we do do is we have Engineering Alumni Network awards. So it's annually, folks are nominated, and then we're able to actually recognize incredible alumni who have been doing fantastic things in their community. Chris Yip 9:51 I've had to write nomination letters. I've seen and I've been at the award ceremony. We have some pretty spectacular alum. Liane Catalfo 9:57 It's quite humbling. So it's a great way to recognize those individuals. Another key program that we have is a global ambassador program, so really connecting alumni who are in different parts of the world now. So obviously there's a big hub in Toronto, but there's also hubs across Canada, and then hubs in the US, such as San Francisco and more globally as well. So we've identified and have gracious volunteers in those areas that are bringing the alumni community together. I think the interesting part I found when joining the EAN was I didn't realize actually how big of a global network we did have. It's huge, exactly. It's huge, and it's a big proportion, and it's incredible, because if you ever want to do an international experience, then you have this network that's available. Or if you move, or if you're originally from somewhere else other than Toronto, as well, there's just that, again, continued sense of community that exists within there. And one of the things that I have experienced with en and then even just more broadly, is anytime you meet a fellow engineering alum from University of Toronto, there's this instant connection, even if they're 20 years ahead of you, 20 years behind you from when they graduated, a different discipline, there's this just instant connection and bond that you have and willing to help in any way possible and want to keep that connection alive. Chris Yip 11:21 But you're right. Wherever you go, I mean, first off, you you can ID us Canadian Engineers really easily, because we're all wearing an iron ring. And then you start going, oh, I'm from Toronto so what discipline? What you know? And you're right. There's this instant linkage. Liane Catalfo 11:34 And as soon as I see rust on that iron ring, I know it's from this camp here. Chris Yip 11:40 There you go. There's a defining thing, right? But, yeah, the community is great. I think you can go anywhere, you'll find somebody, and they're always gonna be there to help. Whether you're an undergrad looking for a position, just looking for networking, it really, truly is incredible. Liane Catalfo 11:57 Yeah and that's a great part of the EAN global ambassador program, and then actually the other part of the EAN, so we talked about the awards, the ambassador program, is the student engagement piece, so how alumni can continue to help contribute to the student experience, whether that be through mentorship, I'm actually participating in the classroom in some capacity and helping to just giving, giving back to the community and giving students that opportunity to connect with alumni to see what everyone's doing, because it's incredible the different things that graduates of the faculty have done, and many different paths that one can go down. Chris Yip 12:33 Increasingly, we're seeing alumni, like he said, coming, coming and being part of the classroom. So have you had a chance to come back into the classroom and provided that experience to our students? Liane Catalfo 12:44 I had actually several years back before I joined the EAN board, I came just for us a seminar. So it was about an hour/two hour session, and I just talked a little bit about my career path, and then data and analytics in the healthcare space. So some of the different types of models that we build, some of the different problems that we're looking to solve and the concepts behind them and I just remember there was, I was flooded with questions. So it just, it shows, I think, the interest in wanting to learn and understand different types of career paths and what it could look like. Chris Yip 13:16 So how do you how do we prep students for a career in consulting, or do they just do UTEC? UTEC is the way to do it. Liane Catalfo 13:25 I think those experiences help you understand if it's something that you're interested in doing for sure. I would say just be interested and ask questions throughout your entire study. So think about problems, think about how things can be done better, ask a lot of different questions and just kind of going through those experiences working in within a team. If you love those ideas, then it's going to prep you for consulting. The other thing I will say about not just consulting, but any industry, is create that network. So creating that network with your peers, and then as well, with industry, and every time you have an opportunity to chat with someone new, do it take take them up on that offer, introduce yourself to someone new, because you will learn, you'll learn something new. But then, as well, it could open a door to an opportunity that wouldn't otherwise be there. Chris Yip 14:09 And, or learn stuff that's outside of your your core area of direct, sort of technical interest, right? So there's because, as you said earlier, you're Chem Eng, but you're sort of Chem Eng adjacent now, because you're in the healthcare space, right? We see people pivoting to the financial sectors. So in building your network, it's about building outside of your core. It didn't exist when you went through. We now have a certificate in public health, right? Yeah, imagine if you would. Liane Catalfo 14:37 It would be amazing. Chris Yip 14:40 You'd be like, ah! Right? Liane Catalfo 14:41 Yeah. And you can build those connections within the classroom, for sure, but then even through a lot of the other experiences. So whether it be through engineering society or through athletics or different types of experiences or seminars that you're saying, you just drop in. There's obviously a lot of things that happen at Hart House, whether it be their Skule™ night, but there's other things that are non-engineering related too and anything that interests you, just getting engaged, and you can continue to expand that network, and then that's really that's a huge piece of consulting and just professional work in general. Chris Yip 15:14 So we talked a lot about core stuff, building your networks, and all this stuff. This is all very kind of work ish, right? Engineers also balance. Yeah, right? So how did you balance when you went through undergrad and grad? And actually, how are you doing balance now? Liane Catalfo 15:31 Great question. I think it's a continual learning journey of what that balance looks like, and it definitely flexes in different directions at different points in time. But to me, a few things are really important that I always prioritize. One is giving back to the communities that have given back so much to me. So obviously this community, being one of them, have been involved in a couple other organizations as well, since undergraduate, since graduating. I think I mentioned briefly, but swimming is a huge part of my life. Absolutely love being in the pool, being active. Did that a little bit at while I was here at school, more casually, but now have become more competitive as I've gotten older, which is really fun. So I always prioritize some practice and time in the pool. And then for me, family and friends are really important, so just prioritizing and having the opportunity to connect. So my brother is actually also a graduate of the faculty from civil engineering. We have a, not another Chem, but we have a weekly kind of walk where we just go and talk about anything and everything and that's something that's also really important to me, just prioritizing that, that family time. Chris Yip 16:38 No, it's super important. But first, okay, so sibling rivalry, chem versus civ. Are you guys comparing notes there or...? Liane Catalfo 16:46 Chem, obviously was better [laughs]. Chris Yip 16:48 I was gonna say, right? Are there — was there a specific initiative that you're trying to roll through as EAN President? Liane Catalfo 17:00 I'd say two things. One is I want to continue to build on all the great work of past EAN board members. So as an example the global ambassador program that was stood up by my successor, Safdar, and it's has incredible traction, so just continuing to drive some of those pieces. And one of the things that I'm passionate about is the MEng program, given that I was a graduate here as well. So how can us as alumni help to support the program so that way it makes it as great as it can possibly be? And infusing alumni into that program, whether it be to provide help, provide opportunities for for employment, or helping individuals think about different career paths but that's something that I'm pretty passionate about, that is something that I'd love to drive forward. Chris Yip 17:50 Yeah and in MEng, like our professional master's program, it's amazing to see the growth, partly because I think there's there's that you go straight in after undergrad to do an MEng or, increasingly, we're seeing people coming back who are working full time and have figured out a way, and we've certainly helped try to do this, which is to create kind of that blended image, so you can do it while you're working full time. Liane Catalfo 18:12 It's a fantastic option. Chris Yip 18:14 Yeah, we've got all these different emphases, and I think it's the one initiative that we are it's almost like our minors and certificates at the undergrad level, where you can create tailored initiatives, you can do advanced manufacturing, sustainability, AI. Liane Catalfo 18:28 And speaking to different MEng students as well through through my role, everyone has different interests, but one of the common things that I've seen through my conversations is everyone wants to grow their network and have that professional development aspect. So as the board, how can we continue to help support that aspect of the program? Chris Yip 18:47 I think one of the things that we're doing increasingly in engineering now, and it's kind of like we talked to earlier, getting the business consulting side, is the policy angle on the regulatory side of stuff. Because as an engineer, we like to build technical solutions to things, and we optimize, but increasingly, the adoption of technologies and all these processes are bounded, or should be bounded, by sort of policy and understanding policy frameworks as we build technologies, or how they influence both, either way policy influencing how technology goes or technology influencing policy. We just launched this new public policy certificate at the undergrad level to help students that I think we're increasingly hearing from grads coming back, it's like, you know, can you teach us a little bit about the responsible use of AI, for instance, or healthcare policy, right? How do we deal with sort of these things? And I think this is another area where bringing people back from the consulting field to be part of that dialog would be wonderful. Liane Catalfo 19:43 Trustworthy AI was a huge topic for us, and just thinking about the different biases and ethical aspects of applying AI and under what controls and recognizing policy framework, some of them are keeping up with the pace of technology and others, technology is a bit further, yeah, a bit further ahead. So how do you kind of use that to guide decision making is something that has been very prevalent, at least in my work, as well being in the data and analytics and AI space. Chris Yip 20:12 Yeah, it's really challenging, right? Because it's hard to keep have policy stay in sync with technology developments, and you you don't want to stop technical developments because of a outdated policy. We see this sort of, you know, the digital world, sort of like patents, work or wherever stuff, but then you have technologies which now actually are borderless, right? So how do you lock stuff down? And I think another portion of, I think this is very interesting from a career perspective for engineering is, you know, policy makers may not be technical specialists, but increasingly, we're seeing our students, our graduates, our alums, moving into that space, because they're bringing their foundational understanding of the technologies into into positions where they can they can define the policies now. Liane Catalfo 20:58 I think it's a really important point, because you can learn everything about AI, and you can design the best technology possible. But how is that technology going to be actually implemented in the real world? What are all the policy considerations around it? What's the feasibility and the cost of actually making it and building it? What scale is that technology going to be then surfaced into who and the technology itself is super important, but then all the other facets around it as well is what makes it kind of boom or bust. Chris Yip 21:27 Right. Before we end, how's your swimming going? Liane Catalfo 21:32 Fantastic! We have our National Master Swim Competition next weekend in Windsor, Ontario. Chris Yip 21:39 Awesome. Are you entered in the... Liane Catalfo 21:41 Yes, so very excited. Multiple events, trying to stack, as a great team player I'm trying to get as many points as possible for our team. So my favorite, the event I'm looking most forward to is 200 free. Chris Yip 21:52 Nice. Yes, very nice. Thanks Liane, this was a ton of fun. I really enjoyed this conversation today. Liane Catalfo 21:58 Me as well, Chris. Thank you very much. Chris Yip 22:00 No problem. Thanks a lot. Thanks again for listening to Tell Me More: Coffee with Chris Yip. If you want to catch up on past episodes and to make sure you don't miss the next one, please subscribe. We're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and more. Just look for Coffee with Chris Yip. You can also check out @uoftengineering, on Facebook, Instagram, X and LinkedIn, for more stories about how our community is building a better world. And finally, if you'd be inspired to join us, we'd love to welcome you. If you're thinking of taking a degree or working with us on our research projects, you can find us online at engineering.utoronto.ca or you can visit our beautiful campus in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. I hope I can join you for coffee soon.